5be64 - 2y
I'm just not excited at all when it comes to custodial solutions. Credits and ledger databases have existed on the internet for decades. All of bitcoiners saying "just use WoS bro it's great it's just for fun anyways who cares" have really missed the plot.
jeff @jeff - 2y
Wen bolt12? We’re pushing up on three years
jb55 @jb55 - 2y
I recommend it because it’s the only sane option for people who know nothing about bitcoin or lightning, what do you suggest? As long as they have a way to send theirs sats to something non-custodial when they are ready then what’s the problem? You think people are going to start with a full custodial solution on lightning for their 1000 sats?
sommerfeld @sommerfeld - 2y
I would prefer to not mislead newcomers into thinking custodial bitcoin is bitcoin. If no easy self-custodial wallet with lnurl exists then the ecosystem is just not ready to go mainstream and we gotta keep the low time preference.
ee18d - 2y
This is how lightning is designed. Not everyone runs a node and that's ok. It's for coffee not national reserves.
You'll find out one day what's the problem with everyone using the same popular non-kyc custodial mixing service. It's not bitcoin if it's a database entry. You're creating a false illusion of what bitcoin is to the people you say know nothing about it and holding it to their expectations on the off chance they look for some other solution, which they probably won't. Why would they? They started with WoS and "its working great, everyone is recommending it and doesn't think there's a problem". Maybe build in non custodial bitcoin solutions into your app or recommend how people can start actually using bitcoin.
I’m 100% ok with custodial lightning for new users and small amounts as long as there is a way to send it to your custodial onchain wallet eventually. This idea that people are going to run bitcoin and lightning nodes from day 1 is completely insane, until I have breeze sdk integrated in damus of course.
e66a2 - 2y
From what I understand, sats are bitcoin. They are the smallest unit of bitcoin. Kind of like a penny to a dollar. I think the strongest use case for transacting in bitcoin at the moment is to do so in sats using the lightning network. I could be wrong.
ba288 - 2y
A lot of crypto promises about decentralisation are smoke and mirrors. It’s just too complex for normal ppl.
I’m not very familiar with it tbh, but it’s not that simple because most ppl use a custodial wallet. #[5] was asking about this the other day and maybe has the details.
I'm also ok with people doing whatever they want, it's just disappointing to see all the WoS worshiping with zappening events, etc. Do you think most on-boarded users are aware that the wallet is custodial and of the tradeoffs? Or do you think they just think it's still bitcoin just with a lot of ⚡⚡⚡? Something that is "just temporary/for small amounts" just for convenience's sake, eventually turns into The Standard one it hits a critical mass. It happened before with email and with the web.
I think that if you have bitcoin in cold storage or anywhere that is self custodied, in order to transact you have to send a portion to a wallet that will then allow you to transact. These can be custodial (wallet of Satoshi) or non custodial (have no idea how this works. I think you have to set it up yourself?) What makes sense to me is to only send the amount to your wallet that you are going to spend. That way you don’t have to convert back in the other direction. Don’t know if this addresses your question/concern.
d220c - 2y
It works and is easy. What do u expect?
7afa3 - 2y
Valid points on both sides. New users will be choosing custodial options on their own just because they are quick and available. So whether they find it or we point them at it, we need to educate them to know the difference. Can you recommend one or more relatively straight-forward self-custodial options currently?
Phoenix, Blixt, breeze, OBW. None support receiving to lnurl, so if you really want that, you should either wait for bolt12 or go down the rabbit hole and set your own LN node with lnd and lnurl.
Peter Todd @Peter Todd - 2y
“creating a false illusion of what Bitcoin is” Bitcoin can be more than one thing at once. It's both a way to protect a fortune as well as a way to easily send and receive a few sats. And it's ok if you don't use the technology in the same way for both needs.
16f1a - 2y
Why do you think I spent weeks learning how to route with btcpay to my own node. I had the same thought about WoS. Risking centralization.
b8204 - 2y
WoS, although not the ideal long-term solution, just works now. No big deal. Just don’t have a ton of data on it. No denying it’s the perfect example of the on-boarding experience we need to get to for non-custodial solutions.
09ed4 - 2y
We shouldn't normalize WoS. Ideally all wallets should consider offering different levels of custody. #[2]
70b8a - 2y
Pragmatism isn't allowed
I think of it like my node is my bank, my cold storage is my vault and WoS is my walking around money. They all serve different purposes.
