i personally am not that hot on moderation of lists either, i think people can do that by themselves, if the UI makes muting simple and actually working
really really don't like what i consider to be the "reddit" redefinition of blocking into "muting" at all, or the practise of hiders tempting you to click on them like a big red button labeled "don't press me" it's inflammatory and unhelpful... i want to see my mute list, i click on my configuration, i don't want it to be part of the main interface
first you have a relay defined access control list enforced with nip-42 auth, and then you also can revoke access as well as specifically block npubs that may be included as "guest" members due to one or several of the first-level whitelisted users, this is the "infiltration" problem that is often used in open communities, it can be stopped by either blocking one or two stray (blacklisting) or if several of the users are falling for their bullshit, they can just be "nope, cancel, money back, here you are now fuck off"
the thing is that these rigid, hierarchic style of access controls like defined for nip-29 are prone to being taken over by psycho bitchez who want to lord over their little cult den and this is something that we need to give the common pleb user some power to influence, and by normalizing blocking people and a the chatroom deciding to collectively ignore some asshat who is trying to infiltrate a group the onus on the relay owners is less and this also makes it easier to join several relays together that may have some overlap but not complete overlap of membership
at the centre of my philosophy about this is that the more power you put back in the hands of the user, the less levers you give to toxic bitchez who just want to be the authoritaah in a non-hierarchic group, and that's not ok with me, and i don't think it helps by letting me decide that, it's better if there can be a progressive escalation of response that comes from the individuals instead of having to travel up through centralised networks
I also think any group that is based on WoT or follows-of-follows will quickly turn into a shitshow because a lot of people have follow lists full of crazies, spam, scammers, and porn. Like, look at the follow lists. Look at the feed of the bigger WoT relays. Or, rather, don't. 🙈
They always degrade because follows are such a cheap signal.
Also, for example, a Christian following an atheist is common, but those atheists shouldn't be able to overun a Bible study group. That would defeat the purpose of having the group. You'd have to throw all of the Christians out who follow the atheists, to get rid of the atheists, but that's punishing someone for having a diverse set of friends, which is not so great.
I may follow men, but it doesn't mean I want them all invited to my pregnancy group. People who are carnivores don't make for fitting members of a vegan group. And so on. Not that they might not _individually_ be worth inviting, but not a blank invitation.
Making everything about follows destroys the use cases for almost everything.
also, maybe you can see how if we make it easy for members to run the nodes that they can be active in both the social cohesion side of things, as well as the defenders of the group... so if we are making a chat about bible readings, and we get a constant problem of attacks from other users of the relay who follow these people, we can run our own node in the network, and block the messages of these users by either blacklisting them or removing the follows that follow these assclowns
i think that it should be pointed out that what i'm suggesting is also the Christian Way of doing things - to gently push back, and then if need be gosh darnit put up a fence
and i want to promote the idea of larger groups of relays cooperating together, so there is points of control that everyone can exert a small pressure as they see fit and when it is obvious there has to be a schism, so be it, put up the fence, just give people the tools
yes but you make stuff like what happened with highperfocused and cloudfodder in the gopher chat less likely to happen, i just made that channel to get people talking to each other about building go stuff, and cloudfodder jumped in and helped out as well as me
i think there is a lot of benefit in this soft approach
probably it helps that i'm in the process of house training a cat, this little guy does NOT like force, at all, every moment i am violent i am losing his trust, and even, like just before, his big dady, pretty sure he's daddy, came around to visit, the neighbour cat, and i carefully intervened so that these two didn't get too close to each other and mochi had his safe place in my place and the other cat didn't tread on me or my pet
doesn't take force to achieve this, more, just vigilance and readiness
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