My point is that there is also no direct link between a literal interpretation and remaining in the faith. I was mistaken, back then, for assuming that their faith was deeper than mine was, merely because they made grander claims and seemed more certain.
Most people are actually surprisingly shallow, so when they say something very emphatically, it doesn't really mean much. I was impressed, but that was me projecting my own inner ocean onto their pond.
I think this generally something that very cerebral/scholastic people struggle with: people who never question their own faith, who make massive, sweeping claims, but skip on the follow through. Makes the whole thing seem like a joke. They are a terrible witness and they do a lot of damage to evangelization.
I think you're obviously operating on a higher plane than I am, but I think people like me also have a place in the Church.
You don't have to apologize to me for disagreeing with me. I'm an adult; I can handle it.
But I think this discussion sort of highlights my scepticism about the "literally" thing, because the schism in the Church is partially an artefact of which parts some faction took literally. Catholics tend to take everything Jesus said directly to His disciples absolutely literally because the people of the Early Church took them literally and the New Testament was put together years later, under their direction and divine inspiration.
These things Jesus said, with emphasis, are the Biggest Biblical Claims because they're the metaphysical claims. They're the wildest, most-outrageous parts of the whole Library, but they're also the parts that are impossible to disprove on Earth.
You can't go dig in the ground and find Heaven, but you might find Eden. In other words. But who really cares about Eden, when there is _literally_ Heaven?
And, like, Jesus said Mary is our mother, but y'all are like, He didn't mean that literally. Yes, He did! He legit took a break from dying to make the point. Seems like He thought it was an important point and that we should remember it and maybe even, eventually, write it down.
Determining what is _literally_ true, is what the Church has been fighting over for a couple of millennia, and we haven't even managed to reach universal consensus on Baptism.
I'm from the South and there's a lot of ambient religiosity there, for cultural reasons, and it sometimes gets mistaken for piety or real reverence.
I think this is generally the case, in any region; that there are ethnic artifacts, or habits, that have sort of been integrated into the local religious practice. But my impression is that Protestants often can't tell that they've done that because it's all sort of "social/philosophical", rather than "traditional" (like with Catholics, where you can point to painting styles or relics and processions, and whatnot). Like, claiming it's unchristian to drink alcohol, or claiming that everyone can speak in tongues or handle snakes or whatnot. It _sounds_ like theology, but it's just whatever they're into around there.
And I tend to lump the Young Earth stuff into the same category. There was a surge of scientism, in the American past, and that is a locally-derived reaction to it, that doesn't translate well to someone sitting in Siberia, Buenos Aires, or Paris, because we are raised on people demanding we take a stance on that. We are very focused on the New Testament and the Traditions.
I agree.
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
James 2:14-26
(Looking forward to being able to put some 30041 notes here, instead of copy-paste. 😁)
Here's the thing: I think Christians who have matured continue to have different talents and they live out their faith with different sets of works.
I have a talent for creating welcoming, inviting spaces, online and offline, so that's what I focus on, by being a sextant and running the parish website. I also have a talent for being a systems analyst, so that's also what I put my focus on. That's why I'm concentrating on digitizing and distributing the Bible on an uncensorable data storage system on Nostr, and making it readable over an open-source interface on git, so that everyone, everywhere can get hold of a copy, read it, and share it with their frens, and jump into the Bible study section and tell me everything I'm saying that is wrong. 😁
The Bible is not the project, but it was the impetus for the project and probably a big factor in the longevity of the project because building the first three minor releases of Alexandria and then spinning it off into #Biblestr is something that really motivates because it feels like building a digital cathedral.
I don't find it perturbing that people think my personal theological views are wrong. I've spent decades thinking them through and researching them, as have those defending the counter-argument. I find it perturbing that they think that they mean that I'm not a Christian. Because I think it's obvious that I'm Christian, otherwise my behavior makes no sense, at all.
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