Nostr View

Egge @Egge - 1mo

When I started my LN journey I posted a Lightning Meme on Reddit every day for a few months. Maybe now is the time for #Cashu memes? https://image.nostr.build/6c3cb9c98071be3b6b4cb2a601637396ddbc23ad5a05f8f36492d98e7a802869.jpg

1
1
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

the claim of untraceability of cashu tokens received versus spent is a big question for me how do i know that when i spend my nuts that the mint doesn't know when they were issued? i don't get that part, and i'm not stupid, it seems like a big black void of idk

1
0
3

Egge @Egge - 1mo

Because the mint never learns how the secret (which is the crucial spending condition of a regular token) looks like. The signature is blinded. It can not correlate a mint and the act of redeeming a token. You can read more about this here: https://github.com/cashubtc/nuts/blob/main/00.md

1
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

so, it confirms two things: the amount and the truth of if it spent it in the first place? so it is a simple form of zero knowledge proof with one small associated value, ie, the amount, plus one bit of truth well, if that's exactly how it works, and i believe it could be, i never read deep into blinded signatures, then very cool, and that also means chaumian mints act as perfect mixers, because what goes in cannot be traced to what goes out in as far as the amounts differ

1
0
3

Egge @Egge - 1mo

Yes, that’s exactly right. The amount is set in stone, as the mint has a different signing key for each amount. So only by verifying the signature the mint knows the amount is valid. And because the mint only signs notes that have been paid for, it can also trust that this token is actually spendable. When the mint creates a new output, it doesn’t actually know what the output looks like. So when I use that output as an input it can only verify that it’s valid, nothing more

1
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

ok, next question, so when it issues a token, does it do this on the prompt of a spender or does it do this independently and issue it to a spender upon the amount because that IP address is a trace, as is the spender who can verify spending it, how is this handled?

2
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

the amounts can definitely be correlated, is my point, i buy 2000 sats precisely, and then anyone who redeems 2000 sats could be my counterparty? no?

1
0
3

Egge @Egge - 1mo

The mint only creates tokens when prompted for. The token receiver has to provide a blinded message to “receive” the token on in order to make it work. That does indeed mean that a mint can use metadata to trace. However that can be mitigated by privacy enhancing tools like Tor or a simple VPN.

0
0
3

Egge @Egge - 1mo

That’s why there is fixed amounts (imagine notes / coins) and the lower the amount you choose the better your anon set is

1
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

so, i correctly understood it... the mint can track the size of the token to the input and output IP addresses that is kinda important information for users of these things, isn't it? it means you can't have anon ecash without having a tor proxy or similar

1
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

i get it that you can mitigate some of that with breaking the spend into pieces but it's still pretty strong metadata

1
0
3

Egge @Egge - 1mo

Thanks to Multi Mint Payments you can not only split the token across multiple amounts, but also multiple custodians reducing metadata leaks even further.

1
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

well, i am hearing this idea for the first time although i had this idea of non-splittable UTXOs about 5 years ago

0
0
3

Egge @Egge - 1mo

Idk what you mean

0
0
3

Egge @Egge - 1mo

It seems you did not look at it at all. Nothing of the above makes any sense. It is private as the mint doesn’t learn its users balances or transaction history, It is permissionless as there is no access token, no accounts, no entry barrier Cashu Token can be transmitted offline. I’ll take this one, as the flow is not completely offline, as either sender or receiver need a connection right now. Multi-Mint is not multi account. As explained above there are no accounts. Multi Mint means that you can a) split your wallets balance across multiple mints and b) pay single invoices through multiple mints using MPP Servers can not censor YOUR redemption explicitly as the can not correlate your token to your identity It’s not, once you understand how it works.

2
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

only the mint is privileged, that is simple enough to say, the vulnerability is in leaking your IP on the mint and spend

0
0
3

Egge @Egge - 1mo

It’s not signatures, it’s blind signatures… but I’ll let you cook. How would a mint do that?

1
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

still needs in and out metadata protection... the mint is a trusted third party

2
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

just to be clear: only on amounts

0
0
3

Egge @Egge - 1mo

But you can have that. Use Tor. Use a VPN. Some wallets already have it built in.

1
0
3

n…mleku @mleku - 1mo

it would help a lot to change the server to only give out a small set of common denominations as well

1
0
3

🐈 - 1mo

it is not permissionless

1
0
3
Showing page 1 of 3 pages